Fans of ‘Sesame Street” will remember this song:
“One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn’t belong. Can you say which thing is not like the others before I finish my song?”
On “Sesame Street,” three vegetables and a fruit might appear on the screen, or perhaps three birds and a fish. The challenge for pre-schoolers is to identify the outlier, the object that clearly did not belong in the group.
However, in the case of Donald Trump, convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, and “60 Minutes,” the three do belong together because the curious, controversial, and largely unexamined relationship betweenTrump and Epstein stretches back more than 35 years. Recently “60 Minutes” had a 90-minute interview with Mr. Trump, the perfect opportunity to ask him why the Epstein Files haven’t been released.
So, of course, any journalist worth his/her salt would have to ask Trump about the Epstein Files. Except the “60 Minutes” Correspondent Nora O’Donnell did not.
O’Donnell asked Mr. Trump more than 70 questions, several of them more than once, but she never asked Trump about the Epstein Files.
How newsworthy are the Epstein Files? Well, Speaker of the House Mike Johnson shut down the House on September 19th and sent members home for more than six weeks, rather than risk a floor vote on releasing the Epstein Files. He has refused to swear in a duly-elected Representative from Arizona because he knows she will vote to release the files, and that might be enough to pass the resolution.
Johnson is, of course, protecting President Trump. But was O’Donnell protecting him? And, if so, why?
It’s possible that she and her bosses at “60 Minutes” agreed in advance not to bring up the Epstein Files. We may never know, but one passage in the extended interview indicates the existence of some sort of agreement. What do you make of this interchange, toward the end of the session?
NORAH O’DONNELL: Do I have the opportunity to ask you two more questions?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: If you want, if it helps–
NORAH O’DONNELL: Okay. Okay. Two more questions–
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: That means they’ll treat me more fairly if I do– I want to get– It’s very nice, yeah. Now is good. Okay. Uh, oh. These might be the ones I didn’t want. I don’t know. Okay, go ahead.
“These might be the ones I didn’t want,” Mr. Trump blurted out. Is it reasonable to infer that CBS and Trump’s people had an agreement?
A few minutes later, this interchange took place:
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I can’t say, because– I can’t say– I’m not concerned. I don’t– I’d rather not have you ask the question. But I let you ask it. You just came to me and you said, “Can I ask another question?” And I said, yeah. This is the question–
NORAH O’DONNELL: And you answered–
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don’t mind. Did I let you do it? I coulda walked away. I didn’t have to answer this question. I’m proud to answer the question.
It’s important to note that “Off limits” is not inherently wrong. An interviewer might agree in advance to not ask questions about the subject’s personal life, marriage, children, and so forth. But under no circumstances should a journalist ever agree to avoid controversial (and potentially embarrassing) subjects.
If that means not getting the interview, so be it. And maybe that becomes a story in itself!
The full transcript of the Trump-O’Donnell interview consists of 18,567 words, of which I’d estimate that at least 15,000 were uttered by the President. He blusters, he talks over O’Donnell, and he lies about the rate of inflation, the 2020 Presidential election, and the wars he has stopped, among other things. She doesn’t fight him on these, but that’s more understandable and even forgivable than not asking about the Epstein Files, because Trump is a steamroller who ignores whatever he chooses to.
In the interview Trump mentions former President Joe Biden 42 times, often modifying his name with the adjective ‘worst.’ That obsession probably deserved a question from O’Donnell, but that didn’t happen either.
(Incidentally, Laura Ingraham, not a journalist but a Fox commentator with her own nightly program, recently interviewed Mr. Trump. Again, no mention of Jeffrey Epstein or the Epstein Files, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she agreed to whatever conditions Trump’s people demanded.)
I learned the hard way about interviewing politicians. It was late in 1974, and I had just been given my own program on National Public Radio. Because I was focusing on education, my producer suggested an hour about Pell Grants, the federal government’s program of financial assistance for low income college students. “Interview Senator Claiborne Pell, the force behind the Pell Grants,” he suggested, and so I called up the Senator’s office to request an interview. “Sure,” an aide told me. “Just send over the questions.” Because I hadn’t studied journalism and was new to Washington, I didn’t know enough to refuse that request. I wrote up some questions and faxed them over. When I showed up to interview the distinguished Democrat, he simply read off the answers to my questions. I’m not sure he ever even made eye contact!
Here’s the lesson: whenever the person you want to interview wants to keep some subjects off limits, or wants your questions in advance, the only response is some polite form of NFW.
“60 Minutes” was once the flagship of CBS News and (with the PBS NewsHour and “Frontline”) a gold standard of American journalism, but it seems to have sold its soul.
The so-called ‘Main Stream Media’ has lots to answer for in its failure to hold (first Candidate and then President) Trump to account for his lies, and in its failure to question the mental acuity of President Biden. This is, I think, the final straw. “60 Minutes,” RIP…..